Curse

c r e s t · Mar 09, 2010, 10:53 AM // 10:53

I'm not convinced any halfway rational decisions ANet makes (joke haha funny?) about GW in the future will have any significant impact on the sales of GW2. Skill alterations of any sort even less so. Nevertheless, if I was persuaded to consider otherwise then I'd support Alvito's thoughts on the matter.

Short of outright killing the game, it's unlikely anything they do to GW is going to generate enough publicity to actually damage the sales of GW2 in any big way. And I highly doubt dissatisfied players / former players will be able to make any sort of noticeable difference either.

Also, I can't really see ANet considering any skill changes in GW as 'bad for business'. The lack of proper skill balancing is almost certainly not a business decision. It's much more related to the current dev team (and the newly created "Test Krewe") being a merry band of idiots. Don't confuse their inability for anything except what it is, they haven't shown the slightest bit otherwise and they don't come off as clever.

Anyway, GW2 will live or die by its own merits and after five years (a long time in the gaming industry) the playerbase of GW, happy or not, is surely irrelevant now. It's simply been too long. There are a lot more important things for ANet to consider with their marketing strategy for GW2.

Tullzinski · Mar 09, 2010, 01:12 PM // 13:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tramp

snip.

First off the Tim Leary reference is because you are tripping out, maybe I should have spelled that out for you.

You are jumping to conclusions/projecting.

Lets review your a couple projections here:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tramp

I hear that GW2 will be similar to Aion and WoW in that it is server based and you will NOT be able to visit with friends who create characters on other servers. Relaxation... no, they have made it clear that they only want full team builds that are challenging, small team builds or solo builds are not welcome.

You sound like the Obama voter to me. Making statements that are not correct, then attack the person that corrected you. Then accuse them of the very thing you are doing. Classic liberal projection syndrome.

Deakon · Mar 09, 2010, 01:30 PM // 13:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlsPals

Dude, you don't even have to say it. Ive been saying this for a while now. No matter what side of the fence you are on, some idiot will drop by not adding anything but "Another one of these lololothreads?" or "Stop whining." Doesn't matter how you say what you say. Its great im not a mod, cause I would be temp banning for clutter. OP said something valid, respect it or dispute it. Do not spam up the thread just because you disagree.

Actually... if you'd read my other post in this thread you'd see that I pretty much agree with the OP. I was pointing out that the threads are filling up with too much of that kind of hypocritical crap. But I still find it funny... in a pathetic kind of way. lol

BTW... you just did the exact same thing you said you'd give a temp ban for. See what I mean about the hypocritical stuff?

Improvavel · Mar 09, 2010, 01:46 PM // 13:46

THERE ARE NO ELITE PvE GAMERS!

THERE ARE NO ELITE PvP GAMERS WITHOUT MONETARY COMPETITIONS!

Why don't people understand that?

AlsPals · Mar 09, 2010, 02:33 PM // 14:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deakon

Actually... if you'd read my other post in this thread you'd see that I pretty much agree with the OP. I was pointing out that the threads are filling up with too much of that kind of hypocritical crap. But I still find it funny... in a pathetic kind of way. lol

BTW... you just did the exact same thing you said you'd give a temp ban for. See what I mean about the hypocritical stuff?

Oh no, dude. You misunderstood me. I was agreeing with you, lol. I honestly agreed with the OP and wasn't even going to comment until there was one abusive post earlier. Generally, as long as ive been in these and GWonline forums, I lurk. I only really post if I have something genuinely helpful/critical to say, without demeaning other peoples post for no other reason than to satisfy my "Shot down another thread on the intranets" meter. Don't misunderstand me, I AGREE!

Deakon · Mar 09, 2010, 03:30 PM // 15:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlsPals

Oh no, dude. You misunderstood me. I was agreeing with you, lol. I honestly agreed with the OP and wasn't even going to comment until there was one abusive post earlier. Generally, as long as ive been in these and GWonline forums, I lurk. I only really post if I have something genuinely helpful/critical to say, without demeaning other peoples post for no other reason than to satisfy my "Shot down another thread on the intranets" meter. Don't misunderstand me, I AGREE!

My apologies... You quoted me and I assumed you were directing your comment towards me. Guess I'm just getting used to being flamed for pointing out flaming. lol

Arduin · Mar 09, 2010, 04:08 PM // 16:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tramp

How? Because I am not stupid. Let me put the quotes side by side for you so you do not get so confused.

Like Tullzinski already showed, I indeed corrected you on the 'you will NOT be able to visit with friends who create characters on other servers', which is just a false statement, therefore the links to the FAQs. After my post, you changed this to 'I will forecast the restriction is real life money in the form of a micropayment' because 'This is what WoW does and GW seems to be copying WoW at every step from what I can see'. You are of course entitled to what you can see and seem to think of the development of GW2.

However, another Article states:

Quote:

Originally Posted by PC Games magazine

2. Worlds instead of servers

So that people won't step on others' feet, characters will be assigned to "worlds". Unlike competitive products with fixed server setups, the character data of Guild Wars 2 characters will be managed globally and stored in a large central database. Because of this you will be able to move your character from one world to another whenever you want - you'll never be separated from your friends. There will also be PvP battles between the worlds (more on this in fact 5).

So, not like WoW.

http://www.pcgames.de/aid,650247/Gui...The_Status_Quo
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Guil...The_Status_Quo

I can agree on your hesitation to accept my statement "in no way restrict" as fact, but as far as the information goes that I've read, there's no restriction.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tramp

Arduin: "GW2 will be solo friendly."
Developer: "Most content will be designed in a solo-friendly way, though often with mechanisms for scaling up in difficulty when more players are involved."
Tramp Again, Arduin makes a blanket statement, while the developer clearly states that not all the content will be solo friendly. Most does not mean all, nor does it mean the worthwhile parts.

I've never claimed all of GW will be fully solo-friendly. If it appeared as such, I'm sorry for expressing myself not correctly enough. I however corrected you on the 'small team builds or solo builds are not welcome' which is again a false statement as shown in the FAQ and the availability of the companion system. You changed this to 'the worthwhile areas are not solo-friendly', in which the definition of worthwhile areas is open to debate.

reaper with no name · Mar 11, 2010, 09:42 AM // 09:42

The OP makes one critical assumption: That the majority of the current GW playerbase likes breaking the game in two.

Then, logically, the best way to make the game fun for those who are left is to give every character the following PvE only skill:

Invincibility
You cannot die.

Hey, at least things would finally be fair.

Adine Kara · Mar 11, 2010, 01:37 PM // 13:37

Although i can see where the OP is coming from i will respectfully disagree . I am a 5 year veteran of guild wars and still love proph as much as i did the first time i went through it (on a Mesmer at that). It should also be noted i dont use farm builds or game breakers nor am i a grinder.the ranks of long time vets who enjoy the game without farming is greater than you think.

As far as guild wars being dead ill say this . If GW was dead there wouldent have been as many districts as there were during CNY.Also the fact the people are still buying the trilogy so many years after its release speaks to it being alive and well.

As far as the nerf to farm builds i liked it and wish it was done long ago when each of the builds first came out ( Including Invinci-Monks) but at the same time know they will find ways around it and probably have already .

Bryant Again · Mar 11, 2010, 01:57 PM // 13:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rampage

In PvE, there's next to nothing to do but farm...

There *is* nothing to do but farm. This is the same of any standard story-driven RPG since Final Fantasy happened: you play through it and, unless you want to play through it with a different class or party set up, you're done. You've beaten the game, you're done, that's it. There are those who like to go through every inch of every dungeon to pick up every piece of loot, to level up all their characters and learn every spell, who are general completionists when it comes to games.

This kind of gamer is not the majority. Most players who've been satisfied for Guild Wars have come and gone for what it really is: a story. Given the widespread of positive reviews, I'd say that GW2 is going to sell relatively well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rampage

Now, I didn't do a census or anything, but it's pretty logical to say the majority of PvE players are farmers. Feel free to prove me wrong.

To be fair you didn't give us much of a chance since it's hard to prove you're right.

Myotheraccount · Mar 11, 2010, 02:56 PM // 14:56

This thread makes me depressed. EMO is strong in this one.

I came back to GW to finish off my GWAMM inb4 GW2. I'm a veteran player more or less. :3

Buuut, you do have a point. I think allot of people get e-peens for clearing "hard" dungeons in a few minutes. Take that away from them and they will quit. That's bad.

ANet had "MOAR POWERCREEP!!1!!" attitude towards PvE for too long to change anything. I herd same applies for PvP.

Oh wellz. As long as servers are up game's still not dead. xD

Mouse at Large · Mar 11, 2010, 03:11 PM // 15:11

I'm what you might call a "veteran" player, but I really don't do a lot these days. I've done all the titles I want and have no desire to collect e-peen items or armour. I still log on from time to time, just to get stuff for Nic and see if any minis have popped onto any of my chars.

For me, the rush/obsession of early GW has gone, but that's no bad thing. I've had about 5 years of fun from my investment and as far as I'm concerned, it's been money well spent.

I really don't think the various buffs/nerfs have altered the basic game all that much. People adapt and the PvE/PvP meta adjusts.

Roll on GW2

Shasgaliel · Mar 11, 2010, 03:42 PM // 15:42

I like gw. I will not change my mind just because a few skills I used were nerfed. To the contrary. If a few obsessed people who cannot play the "BUILD" leaves fine with me. I like to adapt and change builds. I think changing all skills should take place. Even the most used ones. That makes gw more interesting. One day one area is easy and given build working next day it is all totally different. Without changes I would quit long time ago. Not because I did not like the game but just for lack of dynamics.

Yelling @ Cats · Mar 11, 2010, 05:20 PM // 17:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rampage

Before I start, let me say this: I'm not some dumb fanboy who thinks I deserve everything on a silver platter. This isn't a "OMG STOP CARING ABOUT HOW OTHERS PLAY THE GAME" thread. I've thought about it, and this is what I've come up with.

These are the opinions of a veteran player who hates the state of the game. This is the ugly truth.

I hate Shadow Form. I hate speed clears. I hate all the crap that should have never made it into the game. However, nerfing these skills is not the way to go at this point in the game.

Let's face it, the game is dying. It's 5 years old, we have the sequel coming out in a couple of years. Right now, ANet doesn't give a crap about balancing PvE. That's why they didn't kill SF and SCs in this update. Right now they're focusing on getting people to purchase GW2. They don't care about the state of GW1, the game is done. It's run its course, it's old, and it's 1000x more successful than ANet ever thought. That's all they can ask for.

Nerfing these skills isn't going to make the game good again. It's not going to make you old time players play again. It's not going to make the game fun again. What it's going to do is lose ANet customers. ANet = business, losing customers = bad for business. The majority of PvE players don't care about the quality of the game, they care about getting e-gold, useless titles and a bigger e-peen by plowing through elite areas in ridiculous amounts of time with no effort. The minority want the game to be like it was back in the good old days, Prophecies. Who are (should, even) be catering to? You guessed it.

So basically the game is dead, the majority want dumb skills like SF, and ANet wants to please the majority. Nerfing these skills is going to drive the majority away, and it isn't going to make the game any more fun for the minority. ANet ruined the game by giving us these skills, the damage is irreversible. Veteran players, move on. The game was great, the game is dead, play another game. You've been playing for years, it's over. Believe me, I wish it could be like the old days, but it can't. You can thank ANet for that. We had our fun, let them have what they call fun.

The veterans are right for the right reasons, but it's too late. The people abuse these skills are wrong, but for the right reasons.

Let the heated discussion begin.

This is true...except it ignores the people who were negatively effected by the god skills.

I know of quite a lot of people, myself included, that have considered not buying GW2 simply because of the god skills they added, and let continue their course for years.

They spent years trying to determine whether complete invincibility was really overpowered, and spent over half a year delaying updates for it. It just screams incompetence, and goes to show that most of their success with GW was pretty much dumb luck.

Owik Gall · Mar 12, 2010, 01:17 AM // 01:17

Just revert Steelfang Slash back without the second recharge for PvE and I'll be happy.

reaper with no name · Mar 12, 2010, 01:28 AM // 01:28

That would be hideously broken. As I noted after the preliminary update notes, it would allow people to combine HB+WA with DS+SY! via Steelfang and turn two already powerful builds into one super overpowered build.

enter_the_zone · Mar 12, 2010, 09:55 AM // 09:55

I genuinely get what the OP means.

They allegedly spent 6 months designing an update that made little to no difference. Ok, so I think they did a meeting, said "hey, let's make SF more like SB" , spent 2 weeks doing it, then spent 5.5 months on a lot of coffee breaks. The point is, that was time that could clearly have been better spent. Even if it was just designing more costumes.

If they really want to make a final influx of cash before GW2, make all armors and weapons and consumables purchasable from the ingame store, because most players now would rather spend £5 on a tormented shield than the hours of gameplay required to get one. And it's pointless shiny shit that gives you no ingame advantage anyway, so why not.

isildorbiafra · Mar 12, 2010, 10:47 AM // 10:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by enter_the_zone

If they really want to make a final influx of cash before GW2, make all armors and weapons and consumables purchasable from the ingame store, because most players now would rather spend £5 on a tormented shield than the hours of gameplay required to get one. And it's pointless shiny shit that gives you no ingame advantage anyway, so why not.

Consistent with your line of thought why not ask anet to sell full hall of monuments; and cheet keys that unlock everything inclusing storage vaults full of ecto stacks upon installation.... that way you can uninstall the game right afther installation.

Morphy · Mar 12, 2010, 03:47 PM // 15:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by enter_the_zone

If they really want to make a final influx of cash before GW2, make all armors and weapons and consumables purchasable from the ingame store, because most players now would rather spend £5 on a tormented shield than the hours of gameplay required to get one. And it's pointless shiny shit that gives you no ingame advantage anyway, so why not.

Shame on you.

trankle · Mar 12, 2010, 05:55 PM // 17:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rampage

Nerfing these skills isn't going to make the game good again. It's not going to make you old time players play again. It's not going to make the game fun again. What it's going to do is lose ANet customers. ANet = business, losing customers = bad for business. The majority of PvE players don't care about the quality of the game, they care about getting e-gold, useless titles and a bigger e-peen by plowing through elite areas in ridiculous amounts of time with no effort. The minority want the game to be like it was back in the good old days, Prophecies. Who are (should, even) be catering to? You guessed it.

So basically the game is dead, the majority want dumb skills like SF, and ANet wants to please the majority. Nerfing these skills is going to drive the majority away, and it isn't going to make the game any more fun for the minority. ANet ruined the game by giving us these skills, the damage is irreversible. Veteran players, move on. The game was great, the game is dead, play another game. You've been playing for years, it's over. Believe me, I wish it could be like the old days, but it can't. You can thank ANet for that. We had our fun, let them have what they call fun.

If you want to look at this from a business standpoint, Anet has two products: GW1 and GW2.

GW1 (PvE) is comprised of two groups of players: one group has been playing for years and is past the point of enjoying the game for the storyline/content value. In many cases, well past. If these players are still playing regularly, they are by and large chasing titles or farming for shiny objects. Some are still having fun with this; some are bored but feel compelled to finish a goal, or cannot fathom playing a different game. The thing they all have in common, from a business standpoint, is that they have already purchased all of the GW1 product they are going to buy, save some small items that may appear now and then in the store.

The other group of players are players who bought GW1 late in the game's lifespan, and are still in the process of playing through and enjoying the game for its storyline/content value. The very interesting thing about this group of players is that they still have chapters to buy. Therefore, if Anet is to make balancing decisions based on business motivations, it is in their best interest to balance with the enjoyment of this group of players in mind.

How? Well, let's say a newer player gets to a dungeon like Cathedral of Flames with the intent to find a group and play through. What he finds is an outpost of players overwhelmingly there for runs. While runs may arguably not be a problem in and of themselves, what happens when the jaded old playerbase has gotten so good at, and so used to, running every dungeon that the new guy looking for a group is met with derision? "Dude, just get a run..."

If Anet keeps balancing skills with the intent of keeping new players playing and buying the chapters they haven't already purchased, then they get more revenue. Will some of the farmers/runners/jaded old vets get pouty and quit? Probably. And what does that do to GW1's revenue? Very little.

At this point, the argument shifts to GW2, and how Anet will maintain their playerbase.

There seems to be a commonly used argument here that if Anet does not keep GW1 players playing until GW2's release, then it will lose them as customers. I don't really buy it. What does Anet have to do to sell copies of GW2? Make a quality game that gets quality reviews. Will there be some GW1 players that were so put off by Anet's GW1 decisions that they simply won't buy GW2? Yeah, probably, but I'd suggest the number of these players is far less than people make it out to be.

To the extent that Anet's GW1 balancing from this point on affects GW2 sales, my personal opinion is that they will end up with a better reputation by balancing for newer players playing trough chapters than by balancing for farmers and runners that have been playing for 4-5 years. If I let reputation matter to my game purchasing decisions, I'll always give more points to a company that tried to balance in the name of gameplay that in the name of holding on to players who have long since exhausted the content.